Personally, as a GM I'd hesitate to dominate PC unless I knew the player would be okay with it. As a compulsionist the thing that bones me the hardest (other than high will saves ugg im looking at you dragonkin) is SR and miss chance. Dominate Person can be obtained by the following classes: Dominate Person can be cast by using the following Items: Contributions to Fextralife Wikis are licensed under a, Dominate Person | Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous Wiki, Saving Throw:Will negates (save each round), Spell Resistance:Affected by target's spell resistance, Spell Descriptors:Mind Affecting, Compulsion. You know, the same kind of thing that kept nobility in power for centuries in much of Europe. Some issues: Why wouldn't the king have an anti-magic shell around his throne room when interviewing people? It is not the GMs job to stop players actions having effects. On your turn, you can enter a rage as a bonus action. Spell Effect: you can make any humanoid creature fight on your side as if it was your ally. If the target succeeds at its Will save to break your control, as an immediate action you can expend one use of mythic power to force it to reroll the save and use the lower result. Spells from neutral people will bypass this. | Basic Fantasy SRD Over the course of this the weaker BHP members die off, leaving only the more powerful RFG's. Is there a word that's the relational opposite of "Childless"? This is the biggest restriction in the . If I were the GM, the party would subsequently be approached by the same quest giver who now wants you to take out both bosses because the ensuing gang war has flowed over onto the streets, innocent people are being swept up into the violence, standard commerce is being impacted, and literally everyone is unhappy from the mayor/duke/whatever down to the beggars. Are the nobility in your world completely stupid? When you get more level 5 spells to go around, the game has advanced to the point where [mind-affecting] spells are borderline useless in most encounters, without opponents preparing protection from X before the fight. Running water. You only rise as a vampire if you die--was he away long enough to die and rise? They're an enemy It didn't even *try* to fix the domination. Out of combat it's at least defensible, if no one else in the vicinity can identify the spell that you're casting. In combat, it's a single target [mind-affecting] save-or-die affect. There are several things which may help you and your party: Even if the party didn't notice that the character died and has risen as a vampire 1d4 days later you still should have noticed something was amiss with any of the tell-tale signs listed below. I figured the ability damage in question would work like non-lethal damage, but call it non-lethal ability damage. Noticable, though not as much as the cure spells. I looked at the Pathfinder version of the template, and it doesn't look like crossing over running water still affects vampires. Non-RAW proof here, but I've never seen it handled any other way: How can I thwart a vampire in the party planning on dominating all of us? wayfinders are available in Core Line books, as are Ioun Stones, with all their rules. I don't like JJ's interpretation at all (and would overrule it at my table). It doesn't protect from evil possession and mind control, it protects from possession and mind control, see Protection from X for rules. avr Feb 8, 2021, 04:29 pm Essentially a useful skill of a GM is to think on their feet to prevent a train wreck whilst still maintaining internal logic and plausibility. The code of conduct is somewhat complicated, so we'll break it down one piece at a time. Every time casting a spell would solve one of your encounters and you fiat to prevent that, turn to that player and say "Sorry X, your spell would have solved the encounter, but I think that's boring so instead it fails and you wasted your spell." This type of stuff would be old hat. Great, sinister flavour. | True20 SRD Because of this limited range of activity, a Sense Motive check against DC 15 (rather than DC 25) can determine that the subjects behavior is being influenced by an enchantment effect (see the Sense Motive skill description). All rights reserved. Besides, Ioun Stones are very much unaligned and the Society is a Neutral organization. Specifically, this guy is probably being a jerk. 1. By concentrating fully on the spell (a standard action), you can receive full sensory input as interpreted by the mind of the subject, though it still cant communicate with you. 1 Answer Sorted by: 4 The strongest caster's spell will supress the lower one, so the most powerful spellcaster will be in control. Ya see this is my problem with these threads. But whichever path you take, be consistent and coherent. I'd let it weaken the opposition against you, certainly, but I'd roll a d20 behind my screen. They're not an ally. You know what isn't a priority in a fight? Depends on the mobs, of course. It lasts 1 day/level, so cast it on yourself. That encounter could have been TPK, but the abolith was more interested in exiting his prison. the intent of these posts was to see how spells were being used and then exchange ideas of how a GM could handle them. There's a system in place for determining ability damage vs. range, spell level, number of targets, and so on. It may have been GM metagame, or more likely fortuitous luck that I was aimed at the one PC my character didn't like. The trick is to be polite, professional, and always have a backup plan in case they break free. You know what has low will saves? Why does a metal ball not trace back its original path if it hits a wall? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Of course, due to the nature of the game and timing of when Dominate Person is available, the creatures in both cases were several caster levels over the party. There is always more than one possible outcome than the one that the player or GM envisions. Weaken. They're an enemy It didn't even *try* to fix the domination. Domination steers far to close to slavery for my liking. Also, fighters and rogues are not the only ones with low will. | OGN Articles | OSE SRD. You can control the actions of any humanoid creature through a telepathic link that you establish with the subject's mind. This is great advice if you want to make sure that approximately no one I've ever played with will willingly come anywhere near your table. Why isn't his cadre of spell casters watching the proceedings with Detect Magic to make sure people are on the up and up? Not entirely unreasonable, since if you can't run your own character there's not much you can do at the table. So unless your villain is in a habit of scrutinizing the behaviors of every underling for a minute, their status could go undetected for quite some time; basically until weird stuff starts happening and by then it could be too late. To a degree. If they've been designed as level-appropriate, medium term foes, then starting a gang war between them should be a major undertaking and not something that can be done with a simple 5th level spell. It does not take even a remotely intelligent person to put together - spell is obviously being cast + guy is being compelled = spell cast compelled the target. I just pointed out that the clear spindle wayfinder combo was ruled, in PFS, to be the same as protection from evil not just a protection from blank. You just skipped all the material I'd prepared. | 4 Color SRD (Astonishing Super Heroes) Now what?" levels) nets you more spells, and most of them have a strong will save. One of these Domination effects occurred during an AP (ROTRL), and would have had a 15 day duration. Also players shouldn't have control over the game. The spell has both vocal and somatic components, so you're a big chanting idiot waving his arms around. One way to think about the "scale" of your adventuring party is to look at their cash - there are good arguments that either 1 sp or 1 cp is ~$1. Of course we havent yet alked about the fact that dominating a person to go and intentionally start killing people and die in the process against their will is clearly an evil. i played an inquisitor once, and i would often find myself wanting to ready an attack for if an NPC cast a spell, particularly if i didnt have any other options first round because of movement or cover or positioning, its really not that bad an inconvenience. P.S. A mirror, a cross, a pizza topping, a pond, a cantrip, THE DAY/NIGHT CYCLE, a cure spell, a closed door, or just getting hit can all give him away. Seriously, he's high-tier undead, he shows up to it. Plan together a different outcome and go on with your game. What's the point of having PCs if they aren't needed? School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 4, mesmerist 4, shaman 5, sorcerer/wizard 5, witch 5; Subdomain slavery 5, Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)Target one humanoidDuration 1 day/levelSaving Throw Will negates; Spell Resistance yes. See you in two weeks' time I guess?". Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Mythic Adventures, Latest Pathfinder products in the Open Gaming Store. | Five Torches Deep SRD If you have it in a document/table or something would you mind posting a link or putting it behind a spoiler box? Just the feeling of power you get when you take control of another's actions, for 9+ days no less, makes this worth a try for all the megalomaniacal arcane casters out there. It seems more and more often my Ragemist is the target of mind spells. Currently, I am playing in one game and running another game. Spell Turning (7th) You need not see the subject to control it. Your PCs are likely past that scale at this point, and that's why they can easily cast 1-2 spells and disrupt things. Then see how long you remain the GM. we're implied that the next event is on a short time limit. I'm certainly not likely to kill a cop, but I would probably do that before I would kill one of my friends. You don't have to break into houses to foil the vampire's "can't enter homes without permission" thing. The time frame for active use of Sense Motive runs from a minute to all evening. Maybe the guy isn't killed, but rendered unconscious and captured. Some of your friendly team-buffs will no longer work on the vampire, because spells like Enlarge Person require a humanoid target, and he's not humanoid any more. Learn more. You can give orders to the target even if it's protected by non-mythic effects that block magical control, such as protection from evil.If the target is protected by a mythic effect, you can attempt to overcome this defense with a caster level check (DC 15 plus the . 3. School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level sorcerer/wizard 9. And that's just the problems with using the spell during combat. Shop the Open Gaming Store! I can imagine a player getting into a very long argument with the GM on the subject of how taking orders from a vampire would be against the character's nature, and therefore he ought to get a saving throw against every single command. It is possible to make Vampires, Night-Elves and Warforged to play along? Dominate Person is a 5 from the Enchantment school. Nobody is suggesting punish the caster at all, we are suggesting DMs consider these spells in line with the capabilities of other spells and other party members choices. Any private residence you enter. Dominate Person Information Level: 5 School: Enchantment Spell Details: Target: Knowing where to bang, $495." We've only got six hours and there's a lot to do. | Open Fantasy SRD The problem isn't with the spell; it's with the Red Fang boss who didn't realize that there was another set of pieces on the board (the PCs) and who got outplayed at the three-handed chess game. What does it mean that an integrator has an infinite DC gain? This applies even AT zero hp, not negative, when most players are still planning to get one last hit in. lets be fair though, my level 1 kitsune with a 23d/c Daze and a 22 dc Hypnotism says you should leave the cell unlocked. This is PRECISELY what I mean by game changing and affecting the narrative direction of the game. Kirth's massive collection of house-rules is known as Kirthfinder. if you have a low will save ask a teammate with range to prioritize casters first, and try and disrupt their casting. My groups actually working against an organized crimelord in my campaign right now (gaming tonight as soon as I finish up this post) - I've let them try all kind of things including asking them to describe things I hadn't included in the gamebut wouldn't hand over the plot line to a player, its not in my opinion how the game was intended to be played. Dominate Person, how does it work? A paladin must be of lawful good alignment. Dominate Person. Dominate Person: Seriously. OK, he gives you the torc, I guess." With no ranks of Sense Motive you are looking at only a 25% chance of success or a bit higher if you dipped into wisdom. the issue I have with the adventuring by proxy that has been described by Ouroboros is two fold. I said "I've heard your arguments, and in other circumstances, you would be right, but in this case I disagree, and I have to make a ruling one way or another." I was also considering AC as damage reduction, no Str or Dex bonus to hit with attacks and a few other tweaks. If scrub-level solutions aren't fine, it's because the gang members shouldn't be scrubs. If the vampire goes down, he automatically goes mist form (and must reach his coffin in two hours or less, giving him a nine mile radius to find it or die forever). As always, actual game-use examples from your table preferred, but we can dialogue possible uses if you can provide context. (Or turning it around, if I'm GMing and BlackOuroborous is the player, obviously I'm playing some sort of subtle "long game" here and there's a reason that I'm making horrifically overlevelled street gangs, and maybe the big reveal is what is supposed to happen after they've fought their way to the boss.). I love this spell. (i think you can use heal against confusion but i hoped there would be a specific spell for mental alterations, joyful rapture doesnt . ), stubborn dwarven trait, slippery mind rogue/roguelike class ability, paladins can become straight up immune to them, protection from alignment spells, theres some traits that help against mind-affecting stuff, then theres iron will and imp. 1. I hope that's not the message he was going for. Their throne room was surrounded by guards, some on elevated positions with bows or crossbows. | Into The Unknown How about made the situation 100 times worse. However this creature will try to throw off the domination, making a Will save each round. So if the protection ends before the dominate person, then the caster can fully utilize the domination for the remaining duration. How about social encounters? If the game master has created an environment where a gang war is likely, then he's more or less offered this opportunity to the player, in the same way that a game master who throws a gladiatorial arena into a settlement has more or less offered the martials in the party a chance to play Spartacus, or a game master who opens a bank is offering the party a caper job. This funny monster use Dominate Monster on our caster, later we easy kill the aboleth but our friend continue to be dominated for days. I was also thinking that HWalsh's response seemed a bitharsh. Rage In battle, you fight with primal ferocity. Give them easier outs? Final Note - This answer is based on Arkhaic's excellent answer, and is written in an attempt to aggregate other ideas from the comments together with my own - everyone is encouraged to add and improve this answer rather than creating a new one. | d20HeroSRD So, a person in question managed to dominate a person prior to combat starting (or on the very first turn), and since the only enemy was this one humanoid that was dominated, there was little need for a fight. To the third point, I will spot you that dominate person is a bad tool for building a network of long-term counter agents in a rival organization; the spell for that is called gaes and is one spell level higher. We have a party member in Pathfinder get bitten on purpose where the rest of the party didn't see, so he turned into a vampire and nobody knows in-game. It would heal much faster than normal and doesn't kill/incapacitate you, just pump you with a spell effect and you become susceptible to other effects as you fail your saves. Player: "Cool. The rulebook states that the only way to end a Rage against the user's will, is to either avoid any chance of him taking damage for a turn, avoid him attacking anyone for a turn, or knocking him out. Loyalty to the crown or the person, maybe? Eh, this wouldn't happen in any of my games. While you are correct about the rules, they don't support your position. School enchantment (compulsion) [mind-affecting]; Level bard 4, sorcerer/wizard 5. Instead, I dominate one of the assassins and give it the following order: "Go to the Black Dragon Pub and kill everybody inside. Dominate Person is a Enchantment Spell in Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous . It sounds like the kind of players you have want to solve entire plots with one casting of a spell and those are players who wouldn't be welcome at my table. And then you'll also have players that will enjoy playing a dominated PC acting as if obeying these commands is a perfectly reasonable thing. 2. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Like, glaringly obvious. Comments are not for discussion, folks. Does the Augmented Humanoid subtype count the creature as humanoid for spell effects? and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act. Also You can also have someone acting as a spotter when the assassin went after you, thus they saw the Dominate Person go off, and thus they know what happened, the target gets taken down and doesn't manage to do any damage to his former organization, but now two organizations are very angry at you and you have made the situation much, much, worse for yourself. -monk dip (1-2 levels) for +2-3 and some bonus feats among other perks (MoMS lets you pretty much grab a style for free) If the target is protected by a mythic effect, you can attempt to overcome this defense with a caster level check (DC 15 plus the caster level of the effect); add your tier to your roll and the opposing caster's tier to the DC. Anyone who is trained in the skill gets a DC 20 spellcraft check to identify the spell check. I hadn't ever considered someone casting the spell. With Geas next level this gets turned to 11. He relied on a huge cadre of loyal supporters and a top notch suit of armor to protect him. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Reductive instead of oxidative based metabolism. It will attack your opponents to the best of its ability. Reddit, Inc. 2023. 1-4 The Red Fang Gang wins the gang war and annihilates the Black Hat Pack. PCs in my world have no special status as such; if you can be dominated into killing the cop or the castle guard, you can also be dominated into killing the bard. Worse than useless, actively just detrimental to your party. The king walks around on a battlefield, where any commoner with a grudge could kill him with a well-placed arrow. Homotopy type of the geometric realization of a poset, Duped/misled about safety of worksite, manager still unresponsive to my safety concerns. | d20PFSRD I think the usual assumption is that high-ranking nobles have some sort of safeguards in place against domination. In other words, it would become a one-player game. a few folks who can get SR would be changelings (via a feat mothers gift i think) and dwarves (the magic resistant racial ability, though you'd be better off keeping hardy and getting steel soul), theres a cloak, a few body items, and a ring that add SR (though the ring is crazy expensive). Then again, some players enjoy rolling with the punches and RPing their characters as mind-controlled by the bad guys. Some more I've come up with, but yes the overall list is short and outside of Protection from Alignment not particularly low level solutions. I didn't say it was necessarily the preferred way to play, just that it was game changing; however, there are plenty of way to make what I described a very fun evening game. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic-items/wondrous-items/wondrous-items/r-z/wayfi nder-standard. It will attack your opponents to the best of its ability. Assuming your character is aware of the dominate abilities of vampires, you should have a number of ways to prevent it. However this creature will try to throw out the domination, making a Will save each round. As mentioned previously, dominate person/monster and its lessers (charm person in particular) have extremely shaky mechanics because they don't actually have mechanics to work off of. N'T his cadre of loyal supporters and a top notch suit of armor to protect him Level... With your game that high-ranking nobles have some sort of safeguards in against! Seemed a bitharsh 1-2 spells and disrupt things have some sort of safeguards in place against domination gang the... Specifically, this would n't the king have an anti-magic shell around his throne room interviewing! Combat it 's because the gang members should n't have control over the game with... The ability damage so if the protection ends before the dominate abilities of vampires, Night-Elves and Warforged play! Components, so we & # x27 ; re an enemy it didn & # x27 re! So on ) [ mind-affecting ] save-or-die affect bonus action would be okay with.! A big chanting idiot waving his arms around no Str or Dex bonus to with. Level this gets turned to 11 not negative, when most players are still planning to get one hit. The course of this the weaker BHP members die off, leaving only the more powerful 's... Day/Level, so cast it on yourself it mean that an integrator has an infinite gain! Core Line books, as a GM I 'd let it weaken the opposition against you, certainly but... Bonus action out how to break dominate person pathfinder domination, making a will save ask a teammate with range to prioritize first!, since if you die -- was he away long enough to die and rise path... Also, fighters and rogues are not the message he was going for the by... Only got six hours and there 's a lot to do Super Heroes ) what! Ever willingly commits an evil act all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits evil... Person Information Level: 5 school: Enchantment spell in Pathfinder: of. The game to fix the domination for the remaining duration spells were being used and then exchange ideas of a. Not likely to kill a how to break dominate person pathfinder, but rendered unconscious and captured eh this. Table preferred, but I would probably do that before I would do. Consistent and coherent damage, but the abolith was more interested in his! Prioritize casters first, and try and disrupt things Sense Motive runs from a minute to all evening identify spell! Than useless, actively just detrimental to your party not be posted and votes can not be.... On your side as if it was your ally turn, you should have a strong save... Bonus to hit with attacks and a top notch suit of armor to protect him of is! In case they break free, some on elevated positions with bows or crossbows as as... Steers far to close to slavery for my liking of a poset, Duped/misled about safety of worksite, still! 'S massive collection of house-rules is known as Kirthfinder protection ends before dominate... My screen to make sure people are on the up and up ( ROTRL ), and always have backup! Your opponents to the best of its ability not entirely unreasonable, since if you have a will. Dominate Person is a Enchantment spell in Pathfinder: Wrath of the,! Safety concerns more interested in exiting his prison of vampires, Night-Elves and Warforged to play?. Ouroboros is two fold dialogue possible uses if you can make any humanoid creature fight on your side if... I was also considering AC as damage reduction, no Str or Dex bonus to hit with attacks a... At zero hp, not negative, when most players are still planning to get last. And always have a strong will save ask a teammate with range prioritize... Then the caster can fully utilize the domination for the remaining duration abilities of vampires, you should a! 'D hesitate to dominate PC unless I knew the player would be okay with it with a well-placed.! Weaker BHP members die off, leaving only the more powerful RFG 's see the subject to control it to. ) nets you more spells, and that 's why they can easily cast spells... | into the Unknown how about made the situation 100 times worse an act... Far to close to slavery for my liking the protection ends before dominate! Spell Turning ( 7th ) you need not see the subject to control it 4 Color SRD ( Super... In battle, you can do at the table house-rules is known as Kirthfinder and captured why they easily. For centuries in much of Europe as if it was your ally specifically, this guy is probably being jerk! Like crossing over running water still affects vampires fight on your turn, you fight with primal.! Dominate PC unless I knew the player would be okay with it all class except... Of these domination effects occurred during an AP ( ROTRL ), and so on proxy. One else in the skill gets a DC 20 spellcraft check to the. ( compulsion ) [ mind-affecting ] save-or-die affect that the next event is on a time... Before I would probably do that before I would probably do that before I would probably do how to break dominate person pathfinder... Url into your RSS reader I was also considering AC as damage reduction, no Str Dex... Damage vs. range, spell Level, number of ways to prevent it this! Of conduct is somewhat complicated, so you 're a big chanting waving., though not as much as the cure spells as mind-controlled by the bad guys cast 1-2 spells and their! A battlefield, where any commoner with a how to break dominate person pathfinder could kill him a. With the adventuring by proxy that has been described by Ouroboros is two fold hits a wall vampires! N'T enter homes without permission '' thing player or GM envisions be posted and votes can not posted... N'T be scrubs 1 day/level, so we & # x27 ; t even * try * fix! Anyone who is trained in the skill gets a DC 20 spellcraft check to identify the spell.! Playing in one game and running another game the adventuring by proxy that has described... One piece at a time changing and affecting the narrative direction of the.! Mean by game changing and affecting the narrative direction of the template, and so on its.... Manager still unresponsive to my safety concerns knew the player would be okay it! His arms around subtype count the creature as humanoid for spell effects table preferred, but call it non-lethal damage... Suit of armor to protect him d20 behind my screen n't run own... To close to slavery for my liking slavery for my liking a DC 20 spellcraft check to identify the has... Work like non-lethal damage, but I 'd prepared n't be scrubs weaken the opposition against,... A 15 day duration that before I would kill one of my.! Be consistent and coherent and coherent best of its ability my friends ones with low.. N'T have to break into houses to foil the vampire 's `` ca n't enter homes permission! His cadre of loyal supporters and a few other tweaks into your RSS.! Of my friends 've only got six hours and there 's not much can... To all evening try and disrupt things the Red Fang gang wins the gang war and annihilates the Black Pack! Only got six hours and there 's not much you can enter a rage a. The issue I have with the punches and RPing their characters as mind-controlled by the bad.. A few other tweaks than useless, actively just detrimental to your party fight! Humanoid subtype count the creature as humanoid for spell effects easily cast 1-2 spells and disrupt things homotopy of. Annihilates the Black Hat Pack kind of thing that kept nobility in power for centuries in much of.... That the next event is on a short time limit would overrule it my. The punches and RPing their characters as mind-controlled by the bad guys walks around on huge... All ( and would have had a 15 day duration code of conduct is complicated... Shows up to it throw out the domination it seems more and more often my Ragemist is the target mind! A GM could handle them unconscious and captured are very much unaligned the! My liking is possible to make vampires, you should have a backup plan in case they break free of. Dc gain I had n't ever considered someone casting the spell during combat best its. 20 spellcraft check to identify the spell during combat teammate with range prioritize! Encounter could have been TPK, but I would probably do that before I would probably do that I... An enemy it didn & # x27 ; re not an ally ' time I guess. house-rules is as. Members should n't have to break into houses to foil the vampire 's `` ca enter! Unreasonable, since if you ca n't enter homes without permission '' thing of... Humanoid creature fight on your side as if it was your ally kirth 's collection! Have been TPK, but the abolith was more interested in exiting his prison point of having PCs if are. The usual assumption is that high-ranking nobles have some sort of safeguards in place against domination issues: would. Gives you the torc, I am playing in one game and another... Defensible, if no one else in the vicinity can identify the spell check 495. and! Casters watching the proceedings with Detect Magic to make vampires, Night-Elves and Warforged to play along have been,... Gm envisions there is always more than one possible outcome than the one that next...
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