Have you read our other Tolkien and Middle-earth Questions and Answers articles? With Gondor in shambles and most of the Elves already on their way to Valinor, the free people of Middle-earth wouldn't have had any hope of standing up to Sauron. It is indeed probable that he was simply unaware of the minor or more delicate productions of Yavanna: such as small flowers. found that he was completely responsible for it. When she confronted him about this, the mysterious Southlander confirmed that he was, indeed, the Sauron. I can put it no plainer than by saying that Bilbo was meant to find the Ring, and not by its maker. Is it because in Arda Marred, the Valar are not able and/or willing to directly intervene anymore, and sending the Istari was all they could do? Tolkien never finished this version of the text, which concluded in the next partial paragraph with an incomplete argument that Sauron had already been defeated by the power of the Children themselves. If not, why? Privacy Policy. There is no way to be sure. As for the Halbrand of it all, Vickers doesnt think Sauron has left that part of his journey completely behind. That's not to say you have to be a LOTR scholar or Tolkien academic to post or enjoy this subreddit, but that we'd prefer mature topics of discussion here. Blake Hawkins has written TV and movie features and recaps for CBR since March of 2021. There was also the small matter of the Music of the Ainur - in particular the fact that the initial vision was taken away before the end: "and some have said that the vision ceased ere the fulfilment of the Dominion of Men and the fading of the Firstborn; wherefore, though the Music is over all, the Valar have not seen as with sight the Later Ages or the ending of the World". How many numbers can I generate and be 90% sure that there are no duplicates? - Edlothiad Aug 24, 2018 at 6:21 Add a comment 6 Answers Sorted by: 41 Most likely not. Search all subdomains on our site. Up until that point, they were dealing with Sauron very well from their perspective because the Children themselves were active adversaries to Sauron, even effective. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Cookie Notice I understand that Sauron fled after Morgoth's defeat, and so that held off Valar action for a few hundred years, but why didn't the Valar try to stop Sauron in the Second Age? Scan this QR code to download the app now. I think Elrond himself hinted at this at the council when he made it clear that they could not send the Great Ring to Valinor, for they who dwell beyond the Sea would not receive it: for good or ill it belongs to Middle-earth: it is for us who still dwell here to deal with it. Those who live in Middle-Earth have to handle Sauron and his Ring. . Combine them with a bunch of red-state politicians all but happy to stop pretending to not be racist long enough to suck on the Trump teat and you have a metaphorical Molotov cocktail primed to crash through your metaphorical Black church window. What Could Gil-galad and Elendil Have Done If They Captured Sauron? The event showed how the quest had changed the Hobbits, but it also showed how far Saruman had fallen. Elendils last desperate stroke killed Sauron and gave Isildur the chance to destroy the Ring. He was clearly a shell of himself after his armies were defeated. However, if Morgoth and Saruman used up their powers, why didn't Sauron's powers diminish? but i must admit; hes very good at playing a villain, his entire demeanor and voice was different this episode, right from the start. Did the Valar actually care about Middle-earth? "So now, when its master was awake once more and sending out his dark thought from Mirkwood, it abandoned Gollum. Yet, Sauron's own power didn't diminish. Great book. The attack wasnt an overt white supremacist gathering, but the Venn diagram of people wearing animal skin and painting the American flag on their faces to commit seditious conspiracy and that of those who hate Blacks, Latinos and Jews probably is a damn near complete overlap. The problem really wasnt a military problem. Results appear on search.xenite.org. For they remembered the Avari that remained by the waters of their awakening, and they did not utterly forsake the Noldor in exile; and Manw knew also that the hour of the coming of Men was drawn nigh. Talk smart about TV! That rally felt like the spiritual beginning of an upward trend of brazen racial, anti-LGBTQ and antisemitic vitriol from within the countrys conservative bowels. Check out the opening excerpts of my cyberpunk novel at https://www.eyesofglass.com, also featuring my complete rewrite of Avengers Endgame! im still a little disappointed they didnt go the witch-king way, which would have been so interested to see. For his part, he did precisely jack shit to stem the tide of these groups increased presence: He said, out loud, of the violence in Charlottesville that there were , There was also his senior adviser Stephen Miller, a. for undocumented immigrants during the Trump administration. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Instead, they sent the istari, or five wizards, early in the third age to oppose sauron less directly than they did morgoth. With production and filming on Season 2 already underway, Vickers knows exactly where his character is going next season. The Trump-and-Monster-Energy-fueled angry whites brought that energy to the U.S. Capitol insurrection on Jan 6, 2021. Proceed accordingly. Proceed accordingly. But Gandalf alone was sufficient to tip the balance against Sauron, he rendered the valuable aid to Frodo that he needed to succeed in his quest. And I think their plan succeeded in many ways for thousands of years. You may read our GDPR-compliant Privacy Policy here. For one thing, any struggle with Sauron should have resulted in less damage to the world than the struggles with Morgoth. But, hopefully, when we see things from his point of view, we see that [he has] fair motives at least in the beginning. Moreover it was not revealed to Manw where the beginning of Men should be, north, south, or east. Sauron was MIA after Morgoths defeat for a long time. They probably would not attack Sauron directly; if they were going to, why wouldn't they before he destroyed Nmenor, or forged the rings? The following contains spoilers from the Rings of Power Season 1 finale. I mean, if they were so worried about destruction, it sounds like it is because they can't control themselves. I see more headlines than I ever have about attempted or executed organized protests from hate groups, like the neo-Nazi-fueled , Weve seen increased instances of organized hatred in. It's not clear how Sauron would launch an attack on the Blessed Realm, given that it was no longer reachable from Middle Earth without express permission of the Valar. It was thus, also, in a sense the end of Manws prime function and task as Elder King, until the End. Ron DeSantis, who announced his 2024 Republican presidential bid in a Twitter clusterfuck with Elon Musk. That isnt to say the Valar didnt continue to help after Gandalfs death. Messages 5,535 Oct 7, 2002 #2 Oo! This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. When Sauron made the One Ring, he put his evil essence inside it. When the Noldor went against the will of the Valar and followed Morgoth to Middle-earth, and were eventually defeated by him, the Valar listened to Erendil's pleas and began the War of Wrath, defeated and captured Morgoth. I do! His armies may have deserted him but all he needed to do was hide someplace for a few centuries and start over. For those whove been paying close attention to Halbrand, Episode 3 offered a big clue about his background. I do not know what I was thinking. Although victorious, the valar decided against direct interference in middle earth again due to the terrible destruction it might cause. In Tolkiens writing Sauron only fully revealed himself for who he really was after he forged the One Ring and went to war against Eregion, destroying that realm (and killing Celebrimbor himself) before he was defeated by Ar-Pharazon and his numenorean army and then surrendered to Numenor to destroy them from within. TVLine is a part of Penske Media Corporation. It is worth recalling thst Enw is a name introduced by Christopher Tolkien. Christopher Tolkien's Morgoth's Ring explained that during the Second Age, Sauron was greater than Morgoth was at the end of the First Age. Morgoth had to be defeated by massive overwhelming primeval force. The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle-earth II, Does anyone know the reason for the Valar. Could Amazon Have Covered 3,441 Years of Second Age History In 5 Seasons? No. Finally, we know who Sauron is in The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power . So what degree of destruction have they projected that could justify their concerns if they directly confronted Sauron in contrast to Morgoth? I think I put a big spoiler in my post so im just gonna edit that baby out of there. The Valars plans only failed at the end with the death of Gandalf. I doubt President Joe Biden stokes quite the ire Obama did considering hes an old white dude. The Battle of Bywater happened as Frodo and company were returning from their quest. But at that time everyone knew who he really was. It was all in Eru's hands from the word 'go'; in the. At first this reveal really seemed outrageous but the more you think about it, it makes sense. Insights to this subject can be found in the comments of this earlier Discussion Post: https://lotr.fandom.com/f/p/4400000000000113661. as the plan was more and more nearly achieved. I am trying to identify this bone I found on the beach at the Delaware Bay in Delaware. Use this form to subscribe or manage your email subscription for blog updated notifcations. Never underestimate the resolve of incels and degenerate losers finding their true calling in racism, , Michael Rapaports character Remy in the film . Only Eru may or can alter the Music. The three elven rings get made, and he has a part in it, although he doesnt make them directly. Why Gandalf Healed Theoden But Not Denethor in The Lord of the Rings, Frodo Claiming Sauron's One Ring Would Have Been Ugly, REVIEW: DC's New Talent Showcase: The Milestone Initiative #1, Justice League: Warworld's Trailer Pits a Conan-like Batman Against a Terrifying T-Rex, Transformers: Rise of the Beasts Has a Chance To Redeem a Fan-Favorite Villain, Sasha Calle Is Pushing to Reprise Her Role as Supergirl in James Gunn's DCU. In other words, he didn't have to use his power to corrupt Middle-earth as Morgoth did. Morgoth was the most powerful among the Valar and to a great extent, at least in the beginning, overwhelmed them to the point where the conflict inevitably resulted in massive destruction. So, if Sauron had reclaimed the One Ring in LOTR, it ultimately would have spelled his own doom. Its analogous to the situation the Valar faced when the Numenorean fleet attacked valinor. Also Galadriel certainly never had any romantic history with a non-elf. The Past, once achieved, has become part of the Music in being. It is very reasonable to suppose that Manw knew that before long (as he saw time) the Dominion of Men must begin, and the making of history would then be committed to them: for their struggle with Evil special arrangements had been made! He writes about everything from NCIS to Stranger Things to The Walking Dead and everything in between. Saruman Volunteered To Go To Middle-Earth To Help Stop Sauron. He brooked no freedom nor any rivalry, and he named himself Lord of the Earth. He re-emerged around 500 years later but indeed being a sorcerer and shapeshifter Tolkien wrote that Sauron hid himself behind many disguises one of them being the seemingly wise and benevolent Annatar who ultimately convinced Celebrimbor to forge the Rings of Power. The concept of a limited supply of power may seem farfetched, but it's what happened to all evildoers in Middle-earth. In that "What if?" And he didnt project a massive destructive upheaval, either. And the Valar knew that could be achieved by one of the Children. Yet one of the most important cuts that Jackson made wasn't a character. They found that the Shire had been taken over by Sharky and his evil goons. They just stopped after they trashed Numenor. There were a few reasons why Sauron remained powerful. 5 Answers Sorted by: 14 The nature of Sauron and Morgoth's relationship is never elaborated upon in any writings. Whereas, with regard to Men, Manw and all the Valar knew quite well that they could not come to Aman at all; and the longevity (co-extensive with the life of Arda) of Valar and Eldar was expressly not permitted to Men. Are interstellar penal colonies a feasible idea? If they had had that authority, they would have stripped Morgoth of his power, rather than going to war with him so many times. You must log in or register to reply here. I read your entire question which is very clearly stated and I somehow answered an alltogether different one. The constitutionally mandated right to gather and speak freely means little when tensions inevitably ramp up because a group of people is arguing for the eradication of another groups personhood, as was the case when a racist ran over and killed Heather Heyer during the Unite the Right weekend. I dont know if Tolkien ever projected how much damage they could or would have done, had they gone after Sauron directly. Although, Halbrand did want to make Galadriel his queen. To understand that, one must understand that Saruman's power wasn't taken. Movie Features Sauron Finding the One Ring Would Have Doomed the Dark Lord, Not Middle-earth By Blake Hawkins Published Jan 12, 2023 Frodo showed great hope in destroying the One Ring, but what if he failed and Sauron reclaimed his Ring? I don't think so. It had one good, and legitimate, object: the preservation incorrupt of at least a part of Arda. That would not have ended well for him. I believe Oss was the most frequent visitor to Middle Earth outside the Istari and Melian, but he rarely ventured inland (except maybe to Gondolin?). Ive heard people have been shipping, he says, and Im down for that. Sauron was not a beginner of discord; and he probably knew more of the Music than did Melkor, whose mind had always been filled with his own plans and devices, and gave little attention to other things. ANSWER: This is a difficult question to rephrase into a simple headline. You dont mess with that. Even still, Gandalf gave him a chance to repent after the Battle of Helm's Deep, but the traitorous wizard refused. Reddit, Inc. 2023. Finally, we know who Sauron is in The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power. Sauron had refused and had fled into hiding. In general, the Valar sent the Maiar there to do the dirty work. The largest recent gathering came courtesy of the white supremacist group Patriot Front, which marched about 150 deep in Washington, D.C., on May 14. The time of Melkors greatest power, therefore, was in the physical beginnings of the World; a vast demiurgic lust for power and the achievement of his own will and designs, on a great scale. Testingthrowaway00 8 mo. For me, this changed in August 2017, when white nationalists lit up Charlottesville, Virginia, with their tiki torches, Nazi flags and fragile masculinity. Ok, so as we all know, the 5 Istari (or wizards), were all sent by the valar in order to combat Sauron alongside the Free people. Distinguish the explanations of Galadriel's test in LotR. All that to say, Sauron had plenty of opportunities to reclaim what was his, and only the perfect circumstances kept the Dark Lord from prevailing. Manage all your favorite fandoms in one place! You are using an out of date browser. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); I read somewhere he had to audition with monologues from Richard III and Miltons Satan in Paradise Lost, so he probably suspected *something* was up even though he might not have known it was Sauron. While Frodo and his companions know that Sauron is an embodiment of evil who must be stopped . and our It would have taken a while for anyone to notice the effects. rev2023.6.8.43485. Saruman betrayed everyone and joined Sauron, A Wild LOTR Theory States Smaug Wasn't Always a Dragon, Lord of the Rings: Why Stewards Ruled Gondor Before Aragorn Became King, REVIEW: DC's New Talent Showcase: The Milestone Initiative #1, Transformers: Rise of the Beasts Has a Chance To Redeem a Fan-Favorite Villain, The Princess Bride: Mandy Patinkin's Favorite Inigo Montoya Line Is Surprising. 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